okay. the year donald trump left office, the year he left office, 2021, deutchebank

commissioned an assessment of one of his properties. thanks to the civil fraud lawsuit in new york, the confidential document is now public and the findings were not great for donald trump. the trop brand has negatively impacted the performance of doral due to statements made by the trumpet when he was running for and after he became president. mr. trump is a polarizing figure who ignites strong feelings from both supporters and supporters of his political opponents. this resulted in many groups canceling events at the benjamin netanyahu property and is kept the result from achieving results commensurate with the facility. the trump brand was toxic to half the country and therefore benjamin netanyahu and golf course was in trouble. the ex president needed a way to make his golf course profitable. he found it with the help of an old friend. >> described tran 29 in one word. brutal. tough, challenging.

>> trickery. >> monster. >> >> that was the ad for the controversial new golf league funded by the government of saudi arabia. liv stands for 54, the total number of holes late at each time and but they call it liv. at any rate, this week, professional golfers and fans are flocking to doral thanks to the generous support of the saudi regime and the public is in the dark about how much money trump and his businesses are getting from a foreign government that murdered an american journalist on president trump's watch. but, the liv golf tenement is one of the ways saudi arabia is lining the pockets of donald trump and his family. remember that right after trump left office, the saudi's gave an unprecedented $2 billion to the investment firm of trump's son-in-law, jared kushner.

this is all part of the incredibly opaque web of financial arrangements trump and his family have entered into, arrangements that have significant implement implications for the country as trump tries to pay off his numerous legal debts while running for president. trump may need that for in cash more than ever. one of the ways trump was expected to pay for his mounting legal bills was through his twitter knockoff, truth social. last month, trump took that company public. thanks to investments from trump's loyal supporters, the value of his shares rose to more than $4 billion, despite the fact that truth social is losing money and has fewer users than any social media company that has ever gone public before. since then, trump stock has literally been in freefall. the company has already lost more than $2 billion of value since the first day of trading. that was 10% of its value today, his worst day of trading

yet, which may not be a great time for a stock that has been shorted by a lot of its major investors. that is not the only problem with trumps media company. trump first launched the social with the help of two former apprentice contestant who became his business partners. those two former apprentice contestants have now sued trump, alleging trump was trying to cheat them out of their share of the profits from truth social. that lawsuit has taken an interesting turn. on april 15th, trump will have to sit for a deposition in the case brought by those 2x business partners, which is notable not just because they notoriously untruthful president will once again have to give testimony under oath, it is also notable because april 15th is the scheduled start date for trumps criminal horse money trial here in manhattan. happy tax day. trump has been doing everything

he can to try and stop that trial in its tracks. today, trump asked the judge overseeing that case to recuse himself, arguing that he can't get a fair trial because the daughter of the judge is a political consultant who has worked with democratic candidates in the past. this is actually the second time trump has made this argument. it did not work last time and this trial does not appear to be slowing down. today, cbs news reports more than 500 new yorkers have been sent notices to appear as potential jurors in this historic trial, which means we are now just 10 days away from donald trump, a former american president standing trial as a criminal defendant for the very first time. joining me now is kristi greenberger, former federal prosecutor and chief of the criminal division for the southern district of new york. kristi, thanks for joining me. every day, it is like i get a mini lesson. i'm going to have a law degree by 2027. a small lesson and how it all works. the jury selection says, there's a lot about it people

don't know. this one in particular is going to be historic, right? just big picture, how difficult is it going to be to select a jury in manhattan that doesn't know that much about what trump has been up to? >> it is fine if the jury knows what he's been up to. you would have to be living under a rock not know that he's been running and he has called the various cases against him a witchhunt but the question really for both sides is can they put whatever opinions they have about donald trump the candidate or what they've heard about this case in the press, can they put that aside and evaluate the instructions on the law and the evidence they are going to hear at the trial, can they put aside what their

preconceived notions are and be impartial? that is really the question. you can expect in a case like this and even more detailed questioning of these potential jurors. a lot about their backgrounds, a lot about what have you heard, have you heard trumps statements blasting alvin bragg and calling him and animal and all these terrible things, what do you think about that? >> do you read the newspaper? >> where do you get your news from and how has it affected your opinions? can you but opinions that you have aside and listen to the evidence? those are the kinds of questions both sides will really be asking. >> cbs news reports they will be using jury specialists to find jurors. for people who don't know what a jury specialist is, what do they do exactly? >> they are basically going to stock jumpers and learn everything they can about them. learn their backgrounds, what have they been doing on social media? do they have opinions on politics, on this president, on these cases that they have expressed at any point? just generally, what are their backgrounds? certain backgrounds of individuals, whether they have families or established employment, there are certain

kinds of jurors you are going to look for as a prosecutor you may want to sit. jurors that have signed before and they haven't been able to reach a verdict on the case. that is a red flag for prosecutors. those who don't really trust the government and believe a lot of disinformation. one of the questions the prosecutors wanted to ask is do you believe the election was stolen? hugely important question. if you believe that, you are somebody who is unlikely to buy much of what the prosecution is going to be arguing. >> these jury specialists, to put a fine point on it, in the courtroom as the jurors are being called. just to take a trip down memory lane, there is a film in 2003 on a john grisham book and it was called "runaway jury." this is a highly dramatized depiction of what these jury specialists do. can we will the tape? >> registered democrat, 46 years of age. unmarried occupational service.

without cantilever. >> look at the way she turns away from the man walking his dog. >> ricky coleman, 36 years of age, her husband, a baptist minister. card-carrying member of the sierra club and registered democrat. >> i hate baptists almost as much as a i hate democrats. >> look at the way she turns away from the man walking the dog. that kind of granularity seems more hollywood. obviously if you believe the 2020 election was stolen, that is a tall, right? and that is a controversial question to ask. i would imagine the vetting process is similar to the targeted campaign outreach they make to voters. certain habits, reading habits, job industries are going to be towels for certain political proclivities, right? >> are you affiliated with certain associations? that doesn't necessarily are you a democrat or republican. even how you put it, that is too much off-limits or it should be off-limits to trumps team once those questions. what kind of associations do

you, are you affiliated with? where did you get your news from? more importantly, are you somebody you will be more susceptible to conspiracy theories, to not buying what the government is arguing? those are the kinds of things that consultants looking at your background can get a pretty good sense of. >> they don't want to stop jurors either. there are a lot of people out there on the left and on the right to know the historical import of this and just want to be jurors and could theoretically ask themselves as impartial or unknowing potential candidates for the jury. >> that is what is going to keep da alvin bragg up at night. on most cases, you have people who are trying to find any excuse not to sit on a jury.

they are really doing their best and you know this people. any question, their hand is up, they have something to say, they need a sidebar with the judge. can tell this people. here, that is going to be less of an issue because it is such a historic case. it is the first criminal trial involving a president and can see people, even if they think the answer is yes, the election was stolen, well, i'm not going to, i know why they are asking that and i want to be seated so i'm not going to tell you what i think. that is where jury consultants will be important. >> gene wilder is needed. all of his computer screens. there is a threat that judge merchan has put out there . in the context of its pending the gag order to include judge merchan's family members, in the context of making this very articulate argument for what donald trump is doing to the rule of law and why he needs to be gagged, for lack of a better term, he has also sent that if trump continues to melt off, if he continues to destroy the integrity or attempt to destroy the integrity of those involved in this prosecution, he will lose access to the jurors names. that means, can you clarify what that means and the significance of that? >> this is the real sanction out of that gag order. this is the real thing that

trump and his lawyers looked at and said okay, maybe we have to shut him up and make sure he complies with this, which is why i think you are seeing the very, the attacks on the judges daughter being taken up by his lawyers as an end run around the gag order. this sanction is important because the prosecutors would have access to the jury's name. they would to do all the background research on those jurors where as trump and his team would not know their names, they would only know the answer to the questions. they wouldn't be able to fact check doing the research and knowing okay, let's look at their social media, let's do all the research. they wouldn't have the names to be able to do that. >> that is a big deal, right? again, from courtroom dramas, sorry, gene hackman, not gene wilder. i do know. all of us have seen the way in which the prosecution and the defense create profiles in their minds as they are developing their arguments and thinking about what they are going to say.

the men and women they are talking to. if you don't know other than the responses to their questions, that you think you are fighting with one hand tied behind your back. >> it would be a huge disadvantage. even that, you are going to see at least donald trump try to stay just within the boundaries of that gag order. he's pushing the limits even by reposting what other people are posting. >> the climate, the relationship that this defense already has with this judge seems so poisoned that i would imagine it is not unobvious, it is not the most subtle thing to say that seems problematic. that is not, it seems like a big, big deal that they have this hugely antagonistic relationship with the judge presiding over this case. >> they do. in most cases, you wouldn't see a criminal defendant try to antagonize the judge who, if he is convicted, will end up

sentencing him. that is not a dynamic you typically see. maybe after the conviction, you see some words or after sentencing you want to appeal but not before it. again, he is trying to do a number of things. he wants to delay the trial, he wants to distract from his conduct so that everybody is focused on these attacks and these frivolous filings. we are not talking about what he actually did and mass disruption. that is the third aspect of what he's trying to do. intimidate jurors, intimidate witnesses, get people to maybe not show up or not to say things that will be back to him. he's really just trying to delegitimize the entire process and this judge has done a good job of trying to stay the course and really not get emotional and just try to give rulings that are fair. >> yes, in the name of justice. thank you for watching old john grisham clips with me on this friday night, kristy greenberg, i appreciate your time and expertise on this topic. we have a lot more to get

to this evening, including the latest on two of trumps 10 foot soldiers in congress receiving the subpoenas in arizona's investigation into the scrolling 2020 fake electors plot. rfk junior try to clarify whether he thinks january 6th was a big deal. he dug himself maybe just a little bit deeper. the new york times, michelle goldberg joins me to discuss right after the break. break. starting a business is never easy, but starting it 8 months pregnant... that's a different story. with the chase ink card, we got up and running in no time. earn unlimited 1.5% cash back on every purchase with the

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the third-party group, no labels, this week announced it will not run a presidential candidate in the 2024 election. ceo nancy jacobson explained the group couldn't find anyone willing to one who had a critical path to winning the white house. this is after no labels tried and failed to recruit former new jersey governor chris christie, new hampshire governor chris sununu and senator joe manchin of west virginia. with a potential threat from no labels interlaced, the biggest potential spoiler in the 2024 presidential race is robert kennedy junior, a candidate who has been garnering almost 10% support in the latest national polls. given his impact here, kennedy's increasingly coming under scrutiny, which so far does not seem to be helping his campaign.

this week, his campaign sent out a round of fundraising emails that called january 62 rioters "activists." this forced kennedy to release a statement today clarifying his stance on the couple like it, which was no less alarming. in the statement, kennedy writes that "reasonable people, including trump opponents, tommy there is little evidence of true insurrection." kennedy then had to reject part of the statement because the original version had said, falsely, that the protesters had no weapons. which, was false. that part was later redacted and amended to read "several rioters have been convicted of carrying firearms into the capitol building." joining me is michelle goldberg, columnist for "the new york times". he has been busy covering rfk jr. and has a very illuminating piece in "the new york times" called terrified parents, new age health nuts, meet the rfk jr. faithful. i found this very eye-opening. a delicious read as well. you talk about the way in which he is seen as a spoiler for biden but the people in the crowd at the rfk jr. event he went to had a pretty trump

bend. can you talk a little bit more about the substantive person, like campaign hires and positions he's taken that sound more like trump is him. >>'s campaign is increasingly trumpy. before he try to straddle this eccentric space but he's increasingly, on issues the left cares about like israel and palestine, he's actually more of a war hawk on israel and biden is. his reputation is as an environment the list and he's concerned about pollution but when you actually look at his campaign, what he says is that environmental regulation is part of the same plot for totalitarian control as covid- 19 measures. he's very libertarian. he said he wants free-market solutions. so, there's not a lot in this campaign for left-wing people

who are disillusioned with joe biden. some of them are going to vote for him anyway because there's a certain sort of person who is just antiestablishment, who wants to vote for the anti- system candidate and he is very much at that. it's why there was some interesting, people had interesting voting histories. one person in my piece had voted for jill stein in 2016, had voted for andrew yang in the primary in 2020 when andrew young didn't win, he voted for donald trump. ideology was all over the place but definitely more people who had either voted for trump or would vote for trump as kennedy wasn't on the ballot that people who were thinking about voting for biden. >> what is so great is that you get at the strange brew of trumpets and as that part of the far right meets another part of the far left. i will read an expert. there is something distantly trumpy in kennedy's mix of new age individuals him, social media fueled paranoia and intense nostalgia for the optimistic america of the early 1960s. i think the right is

understanding this for the potent brew there and sean hannity has been taking time out of his very important programming to talk about robert f kennedy in unfavorable terms. this is what he said last night. >> on the issue of kennedy, well, he is what he is. he is a devout radical environmentalist who frequently was heaping praise on bernie sanders and his radical green new deal. here's another proposal that, well, bleeding heart liberals will find very tempting. kennedy wants to/the u.s. military budget and use the money for socialized health care. >> do you think hannity's latest kerfuffle, which is being euphemistic about it about january 6th being a true insurrection or not, does that smack of political opportunism and a way to curry favor with trump supporters or do you think that is genuine skepticism? >> think that he genuinely basically is so paranoid about the federal government that he

will take the side of whoever he feels like it is against the federal government. he also has a lot of trump people around him. i think it really bears repeating that his communications, his head of communications was in washington on january 6th speaking at the maga freedom rally. there are a lot of right-wing people around him. at one point, his campaign was run by dennis kucinich, this eccentric left-wing congressman but he's gone under dubious circumstances. this controversy about why he left but he's hinted at disagreements over israel and gaza. there's a lot of right-wing people around kennedy. it is possible that he has a lot of genuinely right-wing views. then there's this other space in alternative health world where right and left intersect but increasingly >> the anti-vaccine stuff, the new age holistic medicine.

>> i think that used to be very left coded but always had a libertarian, individualistic strain to it and there was always some right-wing people who were anti-vaccine, obsessed with natural living. the center of gravity in that world has moved right over the course of the pandemic in opposition to vaccines and lockdowns meanwhile, the right itself or the esoteric edges of the right, has become increasingly obsessed with healthy living, the curative powers of sunlight and the like. >> i am all for sunlight. >> in the words of his vice presidential nominee. this is not to dismiss the threat he could potential post to biden. you mail it in the peace when you are quoting sarah longwell, who has been such a genius about campaign, electoral dynamics. my experience over the years in the focus group, she says, "when trump is top of mind for

people, people who dislike both him and biden and up disliking trump more. kennedy could give people who might otherwise reluctantly vote for joe biden and offer before making a dispiriting decision." >> so far, that has been the assumption among democrats and republicans. the biggest donor to trump is also the biggest donor to the main pro kennedy superpac and he's doing that because he assumes kennedy will be a split for trump. the dnc has been focused on kennedy, assuming he will be a spoiler. kennedy himself has said he thinks biden is more of a threat to democracy than trump. the other side of that is who is attracted to that? who is attracted to that message? it is not someone for whom biden is their second choice. >> this is the strange mechanics of robert f kennedy campaign and candidacy and i think you really add a lot to

our understanding of it in this great piece out in "the new york times" coming out this week. great to see you, thank you for your time tonight. we have more ahead this evening, including right-wing outreach theater revealed, live in prime time on fox news. first, and reporting on arizona's investigation into the 2020 fake elector plot shows that it is standing all the way into the halls of congress. that is coming up next. next. 30% off thoughtful pieces made by real people to brighten your home. get extraordinary items that complement your style and help bring your vision to life. order until april 15th for up to 30% off lighting, furniture, gifts and more. when you need 'just the thing' to make your space feel like new... etsy has it. [music playing] tiffany: my daughter is mila.

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donald trump may have stalled the federal criminal trial related to his 2020 election subversion but state investigations into the fake elector's plot are moving right along. despite recent setbacks, the fulton county, georgia case against trump and his allies and fake electors is still alive. in nevada, a grand jury has conducted six fake electors. michigan's attorney general has

filed charges against 16 fake electors. now politico reports arizona attorney general chris mays appears close to announcing indictments in the investigation in her state. kyle cheney reports that mays has subpoenaed two arizona republican congressman, andy biggs and paul gosar to testify before a grand jury. remember, both of those men attended a strategy meeting at the white house prior to january 6th to discuss how vice president mike pence could block the certification of election results. both andy biggs and paul gosar voted to overturn the 2020 election results after the attack on the capitol. joining me now is kyle cheney, senior legal affairs reporter at politico. i feel like this is an interesting turn of events. giving your expectations about andy biggs and paul gosar cooperating with the subpoena and could you tell us what else you know about the level of seriousness with which the ag and arizona may be pursuing them. >> sure, so, just in the big

picture sense, it would not shock me if we saw charges in this investigation as early as next week. we understand it is fairly imminent. but, you know, this is a sleeper case and that we don't really know is the ag purely focused on the false electors themselves or is she looking at a level or two beyond them, stretching into the trump campaign, the trump white house and now, as we see, these two members of congress, who, yes, they played a role in what happened in arizona but their meeting with donald trump, they are meeting with people in the national scope of this. so, we don't quite know what she views as how wide her aperture is and whether she views people like that as targets or not and whether people like andy biggs and paul gosar would comply with a subpoena. they have legal options to fight that and we don't know, we don't have a lot of insight into whether they are employing those. >> i would say one of the enduring mysteries of the january 6th insurrection was how nobody is following the breadcrumbs all the way to the u.s. congress. the president, former president,

there's a federal criminal case against him, the fake electors, the middlemen, congressmen like andy biggs and paul gosar, who apparently were involved in the planning of all of this , have you get to face any serious scrutiny. i remember, i am old enough to remember, kyle, when cassidy hutchinson testified to the committee and said that these guys wanted pardons. let's play that sound. >> are you aware of members of congress seeking pardons? >> mr. brooks, mr. gaetz have advocated for a blanket pardon for members of that meeting. several of them did. >> you mentioned mr. gaetz. mr. brooks. >> andy biggs . he never asked

me for one. it was more for an update on whether the white house is going to pardon members of congress. mr. gomer asked for one as well. >> kyle, the list keeps going on, right? no brooks, andy biggs, jim jordan, scott barry. none of these guys has really faced account ability as you get more serious questions from law enforcement officials. give me a sense of the complications of potentially prosecuting or at least charging a member of congress, as you see it. >> there are a few challenges with that. you know that scott perry had his phone seized by federal investigators as part of the look at donald trump and the broader plot. he was a key player in the effort to apply the justice

department to help to what he did in 2020. so, now, again, he wasn't charged over that and we don't know where that path led doj. it is hard to penetrate congress. they have speech or debate protection in the constitution, almost the full immunity from being criminally pursued over there on official business. now, the january 6th session of congress, even though it is about an election, it is part of official business. they are casting votes to certify an election. getting inside that and compelling these people to talk or even just to get a look at what they were doing and talking about, is very difficult for investigators because of the protections built into the constitution about it. >> i will say, though, there was a lot of back and forth

about whether lindsey graham would have to testify. he invoked speech and debate. he ultimately did in the fulton county case. i wonder if the tide is turning, given the egregious nature of what had transpired on january 6th, the role some of these individuals played in it, and the fact that they asked for pardons after the fact suggesting a cognizance of guilt. do you think the dynamic is changing in terms of how immune these guys are, the blanket immunity it seems they might have had in years past? >> lindsey graham is a great example because he was ordered to testify but under very strict conditions where the city can only ask him about things that had nothing to do with his work as the judiciary committee chairman or as a senator to ask him about his contacts with the trump campaign. that's not official business. you could get to something like that for a paul gosar or a andy biggs. it takes a lot of work in the courts. lindsey graham went all the way to the supreme court with that. it is still an onerous thing for prosecutors to do. >> it is a long and winding road but maybe it is a road was walking down in the name of protecting democracy. just putting that out there. always great, kyle cheney, with such essential reporting. thanks for your time tonight. coming up, are you old enough to remember when

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let me say something to all human as clear and concise as possible.

>> that was kid rock one year and two days ago shooting at cans of bud light with an automatic rifle to show his discussed that the company had sent a trans-social media influencer named dylan mulvaney some promotional material for an instagram ad. the entire conservative world went haywire after that. kid rock led the charge in calling for a boycott for bud light. that was literally almost exactly a year ago. and then this was kid rock last night on fox. >> i see you are wearing, is that a budweiser hat? that was a year ago you famously posted that video, you were shooting some bud light cans. after the dylan mulvaney controversy. you've lightened up on bud light? >> this is a cool hat. i don't know. man, we've got, i didn't know

what hat i was wearing. >> i didn't know what had i was wearing. it's a cool hat. none of the performed outreach here was ever actually about bud light. despite calling for a boycott, the bar kid rock owned still serve to bud light. kid rock himself was caught drinking bud light months after shooting cases of it with an assault rifle. all of this outrage theater around dylan mulvaney and bud light was just that, signature. it was about how politically potent rage itself is. but, it actually did real damage. dylan mulvaney has been stocked, she has gotten death threats and threats. her entire life has been turned upside down. multiple anheuser-busch facilities received bomb threats. but, for kid rock and conservative petitions and fox

news, that part didn't matter. they ginned up outrage from the base and they moved on to their next target, rinse and repeat. >> we've got bigger targets. when you look at what, planet fitness, what are they doing? >> kid rocks new target is apparently planet fitness, the gym chain is facing backlash right now after the social media influencer account libs of tiktok riled up conservatives about the gems transgender policies. maybe he worked out there this morning, i don't know. i've no idea. the facts here are not the point. the outrage is the point. earlier this week, donald trump did his own version of this. in a speech to supporters in grand rapids, michigan, trump told the crowd he had spoken to

the family of a woman named ruby garcia who was allegedly killed by an immigrant last month. the family, though, says that never happened. trump also told a horror story in that speech about how three immigrants had, in his words, been soliciting from children. turns out that the story was also not true. right now, the rnc has a website called biden bloodbath that lists crimes by immigrants against u.s. citizens. nowhere on the website does it mention that immigrants are statistically significantly less likely to commit crimes than nativeborn citizens. if it is useful and it is a great bit of outrage theater, what does the truth really matter? coming up, a new jobs report mix it official, biden era job growth has double that of the trump era. will he get credit? we will discuss, coming up right after the break. break.

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did you catch these headlines today? they were really good. the u.s. economy rolled on, as 303,000 jobs in march. strong u.s. labor market underpins economy in first quarter. unemployment falls to 3.8% in march as labor market continues to impress. this is president biden's economy, the world's best, according to the experts.

an economy as strong as this one until recently would have been a solid case for reelection. instead, since 2020, biden has suffered an across-the-board drop in ratings on everything from his likability to his ability to run the government. susan glasser, writing for "the atlantic," as it is part of a trend where politics has turned toxic. she writes, "the american presidency is the ultimate easy target. other high gas prices due to the russian invasion of ukraine or post pandemic inflation at the grocery store, biden absorbed outreach while the mitigating steps taken by his own attrition have not rebounded to his credit. republicans are free to blast away the president without having to do anything to fix the problem. perhaps the greatest part of being out of power. the incumbency wind is a problem for biden in 2024 and so too is the political families apparently increasingly absurd arguments from trump and his enablers.

forgetting is one of the former president's political superpowers. call it trump's amnesia advantage." joining me now is susan glasser, staff writer for "the new yorker." good to see you susan. i do wonder as we talk about the phenomenon of this trump amnesia advantage how much you think it is born on the back of covid-19 trauma, whether or not americans desire to put in a box what happened in those years has allowed trump to pretend that nothing bad happened and he was a much better president than the fact would suggest? >> even if you put aside the craziness of 2020, alex, oh my goodness, there's so much to talk about the madness and dislocation of every other year of the trump presidency, even if covid-19 never happened. i think it speaks to me once again to trump's skills certainly as a marketer, as a self promoter.

he has convinced to so many people, including people who don't like donald trump that somehow he had the greatest economy in the history of the world. that's not true, by the way. but, it speaks to the powers of the petition. he is nothing if not a skilled propagandist. that is one thing more broadly there is, if you look at it, a long-term trend predating trump in american politics and actively around the industrialized world. these are sour times in many of these electorates. the democratic strategist, bill clinton's white house political director, he found that the americans have voted against the party in power in and out of the last 12 elections. there is really almost, instead of an incumbency advantage that american presidents used to have campaigning from the rose garden and the like, it is almost the opposite. it is an incumbency disadvantage i think that president biden is looking at

and the deep unpopularity of many incumbents, not just this particular one. >> it seems like if you talk about history, ex-presidents often have a glow that coalesces around them as the years pass, right? certainly, that seems to be happening no matter with trump no matter how appalling his four years in office were. the fact of the matter is he is a candidate again. it's not like he's retired and the stuff he's saying right now is equally appalling. i guess i wonder why you think the amnesia from his years passed extends to the sort of forgiveness of his lack of coherent policy or any policy at all that would make sense other than xenophobic or gated immigration rhetoric. >> this is where you see them cask of the current white house

very clearly and 2024, which is to say if they don't manage to turn this away from being a referendum on biden and being much more of a choice between biden and trump, i think they are going to continue to be in trouble. there is a strong sense that when faced with a choice, many americans might not choose donald trump but that right now, part of the reason for biden's low ratings is they are focusing on him and his record and him as the incumbent and him as the vehicle for the dissatisfaction. remember, for much of the last 20 years, large majorities of the american electorate have said the country is going in the wrong direction. that is a huge headwind for any incumbent. they have to turn it into a story and into an election about donald trump, which is where the forgetting comes in. i hear amazing things, alex, even from people who don't like donald trump. they said, i had one person say to me recently, a young person who clearly doesn't like trump, well, did you know that he was considering using the insurrection act against americans? i thought did you forget 2020

entirely? have you written that out of your consciousness? it is amazing to me. >> i would just say, i understand the political realities of making this a referendum on trump but it is not as if good things aren't happening for this white house. the jobs numbers are the best they have been since the 1960s, right? the reality is that a lot of the money that was allocated for the infrastructure object is coming into use in swing states and red states across the country. i guess it really feels like unfair to put it bluntly for this president to have to somehow push his sizable achievements of stage left because he needs to talk about donald trump moore. do you not think there is any way for biden to make a stronger case for his incumbency as the economic news, in particular, gets better through the rest of the campaign? >> it is a good question. i am just looking at what is in front of me and i agree that that is one of the paradoxes of this political moment, isn't

it? the biden white horse spent much of last year on a campaign to do just what you are talking about. going around the country trying to sell the president's many legislative achievements to americans. there is no evidence to suggest that it improved his particular personal poll standing at all after a year of campaigning to do that. there is certainly evidence that suggests democrats as a party are doing pretty well right now. right now. >> that is our show for tonight. it is time for the last word with ali velshi, who was in for lawrence. lawrence.